Westwood, who has filmed seven series of Rogue Traders, added: "In times of recession people set up landscaping businesses by buying a second-hand van and a barrowful of tools and away they go. Landscaping is one of the easiest trades to set up in, but not one of the easiest to do well.
"The risks are that people will have a duff job done. A good or bad job may look almost the same until a couple of months later, particularly with hard landscaping when the sub-base goes.
"I do a lot of adjudication work where jobs have gone wrong, as an expert witness. In the past five years, that has gone from five to 20 per cent of my work. I'm not sure if that's because contractors have got worse or because the public are more aware of their rights."
Westwood would not go as far as to call for licensing for all landscapers: "There are so many areas, from the Chelsea show down to jobbing gardeners who fulfil a role by weeding Mrs Miggins' flowerbeds and not charging £30 an hour.
"People should have NVQs but unfortunately [members of] the public often don't recognise them."
Westwood said those who knock trade associations are further eroding standards: "With all trade associations, only the good guys are going to join. Guys who are going to do a quick, cheap job - why are they going to join? I'm all for trade associations. They give clients more confidence. Contractors are vetted and not just sending in £10 and getting a sticker for the van."
Westwood Solutions has just finished a design and build for the St John's Ambulance memorial garden at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire.
Westwood has also completed a front garden in Wales for Moneysupermarket.com founder Simon Nixon. Westwood said: "He's not struggling in the recession."
BALI chief executive Sandra Loton-Jones said: "When times are harder than normal, members find they are not getting the jobs they are tendering for or hoping to get, particularly on the domestic side.
"Our members' contracts are as keen as they can be and they get increasingly frustrated when they find the work they hoped to get has been taken by people who are not VAT registered and not fully aware of the legislative position. The world has changed so much - with Work at Height Regulations, for instance, that are not just affecting tree work. You have to adapt work practices to conform to legislation.
"These people devalue the industry and make it look like something anyone can turn to."
Association of Professional Landscapers chief executive Jason Lock said: "My overriding concern is that there is the temptation in tight economic times to price a contract short to win the work.
"In these instances, nobody wins. The contractor makes no money and invariably has to cut corners and the client is short-changed with substandard work. It may be a short-term fix but in the long term it will affect their reputation."
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All Comments
what a lot of absolute rubbish. Woe betide anyone starting out that has only a car/trailer and handfull of tools because the banks are not lending money. So according to this article they are then classed as rogue traders. What about the many businesses that started out this way and have become large profitable businesses with good customer care. I have an nc horticulture and an hnc, but can make genuine mistakes like anyone.and on the subject of vat, what really has that got to do with anything? if a sole trader works away and turnsover enough for his requirements and below the threshold, then do what, as long as his work is to a standard the customer expects then is that not enough?
This article has created a lot of discussion on the biggest and best landscape forum. Such is the way off remarks
niall gibb
The article reads as a nice rehash of a Westwood press release.
Regarding the comment from BALI - garden designers and landscapers will join trade associations if they feel they are getting value for money and, just as importantly, if there is a marketing advantage in doing so. My own experience is that my customers place no added value in membership of BALI, SGD or ALP, and I can see little value for money in joining.
As regards the comment about VAT, it would be laughable for its utter ignorance if it wasn't from "the UK’s representative trade association for the landscaping sector".
Frankly this is absurd.
Licensing will only increase cost to legitimate businesses that will have to be passed on to the client.
The result, even more of a black market opportunity for the unscrupulous.
As For the BALI comment on Vat registration, every business has to startout. Obviously BALI are not interested in the many hundreds of smaller legitimate businesses who are not vat registered.
The above makes me glad not to be a BALI member.
Vat is either an addition to price or not -it simply is charged if you are registered or not ! - that's the only technical difference \( if you earn over £50,000? a year turnover vat is a legal obligation)
gardens4u.co.uk
Utter slanderous tosh and pomposity.
This can be read as nothing more than a pressurised recruitment drive for the established "trade associations". This is a deliberate and vicious undermining of legitimate and quality assured small business under the guise of a 'rogue-traders' alert. Are we now to feel guilty that we are not members of these 'prestigious' associations - that we are short-changing our customers?
"In times of recession people set up landscaping businesses by buying a second-hand van and a barrowful of tools and away they go."
Quite frankly this is harmful, condescending vitriol to the essence and spirit of entrepreneurship. I suppose the author woke up one day and strangely enough found himself suddenly running a successful \(VAT registered) business with a fleet of vans, staff and a shed load of equipment? As we say in Glasgow: turn it up!
I suspect there may be one or two businesses conned into paying the extortionate assessment fees and annual subscriptions for these associations, but then I also suspect that this article will have a far more negative impact upon general opinion and treatment of APL, BALI and the like.
As for the turnover comment; if that is supposed to relate to serious industry-based comment, then there are indeed some very serious problems afoot.
Nicky Patterson
I think we all agree that our industry is at the best of times very competitive. If we are honest gardening is an easy level of entry into business and with the general downturn in other trades and services we are and will continue to see more one man bands with B&Q mowers in their estate cars.
I don't want to drum the industry down but the basic stuff is something that a lot of people can do without a lot of experience and there will always be a market for the untrained "gardener" and not all will be rogue traders.
Whilst I agree that we should all aim to have NVQs, I fail to see how not being members to trade associations are further eroding standards!
As for being VAT registered or not is absolute rubbish!
We are in tough times and we all have to be performing at the highest level of effectiveness to survive and prosper belittling small and often one man bands who operate under the VAT threshold gives me the impression that some of the larger companies are running scared and may I suggest need to review their business model and mode of operation?
Rogue traders is a major concern but the comments in this particular article fail to address the real root causes and how we can all help to reduce this problem.
What a misguided article, its like a petulant public school boy who wants to exclude anyone who is not vat registered or a member of b.a.l.i. The recession ensures that sole traders do a good job first time, because we trade
on reputation, not being a member of a faceless organisation the customer is not likely to ever see.
Why not be brave and identify the real rogue traders who cold call,are not registered with anybody,dump their rubbish in the local park,and move on when they have conned the local people into having a sub standard job done for cash.
I hope that b.a.l.i. members who are large firms are not pricing for work knowing that they are underpricing to kill off the small firm.
Thanks to the people who have commented.
I thought it was worth hearing Mitch Westwood's views because he is a high profile landscaping contractor through his TV appearances on Rogue Traders.
He does say smaller companies fulfil a role and adds that licensing is not a good idea.
BALI no doubt meant in the reference to companies that are not VAT registered that many customers would not like to work with a contractor that is non-VAT registered when they should be - the sort of companies that could be described as rogue traders.
Thanks for the clarification Matt but don't you feel it's the responsibility of BALI to comment on what they meant to say?
Mitch Westwood and Sandra Loton-Jones are both high profile - a position that brings with it certain responsibilities.
They both have a duty of care and should have thought very carefully about what they wanted to say before they said it.
I have re-read what Westwood says and he doesn't make it easy to decipher what he meant to say.
If you have misquoted Loton-Jones or Westwood then that is your responsibility.
I can understand some of the arguments in this article. Even though I had over 25 years of 'hands on' amateur gardening experience, I had no formal qualifications. So I studied in my spare time with a distance learning horticultural college and took the RHS examinations. Doing this gave me the confidence to set up my garden and design business knowing my prospective clients could be confident in my abilities. By far, my recommendations are mostly by word of mouth, as are the landscaping company I work with. We charge the same prices now as we did before the recession - and we are still very busy, even at this time of year. I have seen a totally incompetent 'gardener' at work - grass mown to within a millimetre of its life, horrendously pruned trees and dying shrubs as a result. The gardener continues the fortnightly onslaught and the garden looks worse and worse - client presumably doesn't mind this perhaps because the price is right for him or her and at least the garden is not left to grow (let alone overgrow!). I agree that the public don't often recognise NVQ's - perhaps they don't know that qualifications exist...and by that token I would hardly think they know about the existence of trade associations either.
Given Mitch Westwood's comments regarding Trade Associations I would be interested to know what side of the industry he aligns himself with - BALI or APL or SGD ?
All landscapers, large and not so large (in a corporate sense of course!) whether or not they are members of an association, will be welcome at The Hard Landscaping Show and World of Paving at the Ricoh Arena, Coventry on the 24th & 25th of March, 2010.
To be fair to BALI - this is what they told me this morning:
"The comments made by BALI's Chief Executive, Sandra Loton-Jones, in the
article on page 5 of the 6th November 2009 edition of Horticulture
Week, were extracted selectively by the journalist from a longer
interview and, in isolation, could be open to misinterpretation.
There
is no question that, from a price perspective, operators who work in
the domestic market and are VAT registered are at a disadvantage when
competing against non-VAT registered businesses. The domestic client is
unable to reclaim the VAT charged by the VAT registered contractor yet
the contractor must charge it by law.
The non-VAT registered operator
is immediately 15 per cent (17.5 per cent from January 2010) cheaper
before selection of materials and labour is even considered.
Whilst there are undoubtedly 'rogue traders' amongst VAT registered
contractors, there is a greater risk of becoming the victim of an
unscrupulous landscaper amongst non-registered companies if they are
not members of a recognised trade association or customer protection
scheme.
Indeed, it is arguably more important for sole traders and
small businesses to belong to a trade association with strict entry
criteria and recognised industry standards so that the client can be
reassured of their professional capabilities and trustworthiness.
The
member is also then protected against unscrupulous domestic clients who
exploit smaller contractors by trying to extract last minute discounts
for often spurious claims of dissatisfaction with the work completed.
However, there is, undeniably, a major contingent of sole traders and
micro businesses, outside of landscape trade associations, that
operates effectively and efficiently and represents all that is good in
the industry."
Richard Gardiner, Chairman, BALI
This certainly helps clarify the matter in my view.
Dear Gents,
The real rogue traders are the large landscaping companies, who actually under cut the small companies. It causes a downward spiral in prices leading to losses that the large companies can offset, however the small operator cannot and in an effort to trade , the small operators are made to cut corners.
Despite BALI, the ethics on many a large company leave much to be desired and if BALI cannot see this then, what's their worth
Sunil Patel - as a 'small operator' and NOT a 'gent', I suggest you write your response rather more carefully...so as not to offend...if you understand.
Your quote 'the small operators are made to cut corners'. On what basis do you draw this conclusion? Rather a bold statement to make without facts and figures.
Gaynor Witchard
Garden Designer & Plantswoman who happens to work with another 'small operator'.
Mitch Westwood has been in contact with me at Landscape Juice and he has promised to give me his views on the 'Rogue Trader' debate.
I hope to have some accurate quotes in the very near future.
I'm afraid NVQs are not a guarantee for good quality. Unfortunately I witnessed a few NVQs \(level 2 and 3) and the way they were done made me think if the assessors were qualified themselves to do their job. The whole process is mainly not based on study but on work experience, which does not bring any new knowledge to the trainee... and the assessor is not very much involved in the teaching process either. All this made me think if a gardener with NVQ level 2 or 3 knows more than any common professional. An NVQ certificate does not make any difference as long as the common sense and customer care prevail. On the other hand the Trade Associations have the power to put a mark on the quality of their members. When recommendations come from organisations of professionals that can prove the quality of a business, customers have more trust. However, the pressure coming from businesses which are not part of any association should be seen as a positive part of the competition, meaning that they will always put pressure on the "recognised" businesses to deliver better quality results in order to prove their prices. In exchange, the price will be a tool in this fight, as the non-organisational professionals will always control the prices because this is their only way to fight against trade associations. I would call this a balanced market. Where there is a continuous competition between "trade associations" and "rogue traders", there will be quality at one point because they will always have to prove their point. In the end, the customers have the last say... Somebody smart said: "I am too poor to buy cheap" ...
I am gravely concerned as to what is currently happening to Hort Week, their alliance with BALI and BALI themselves. This thread is one example of an accelerating manoeuvre by BALI via their PR, (and subsequent poor editing by Hort Week - who are now clearly affliated with BALI) , which is heading into a strong, misplaced and dangerous protectionist stance by BALI, where given their status, much glorified by themselves, within the APPGH and within the commercial sector of UK landscaping industry is heading towards serious conflict with the traditional UK landscaping sector. Indeed, already I fear there is just cause to discuss the matter with the Competition Commission. The strength of the UK landscaping industry lies within its core majority of small businesses and sole traders and as such the only method of controlling the rogue trader element will be by way of these established and reputable small businesses displaying their own credentials this does not need to be on the back of accreditation which to many is a costly and unnecessary annual fee.
Mitch may find it galling that people are starting up business on a shoe string but what I find much worse is people use Voluntary Liquidation as a tool to escape their debts to smaller contractors. These smaller contractors have no hope of ever seeing their money repaid, yet within almost no time at all they see that person back in business in their same old ways.
Has Mitch Westwood any comment on this-- these are the real Rogue Traders I would suggest!!!